The women had a very serious discussion about Barbara Walters’ recent trip to Venezuela to interview its President Hugo Chavez.

BW notes Chavez has called Bush a devil, a donkey and a drunk. Great observation by Rosie: “All things with Ds.” Joy is right- he (Chavez) is not even a democrat.

Joy et al: Please note: More and more democrats aren’t democrats in the historically American sense, they are socialists. This is particularly true of the base. (Think expansive government with the goal to redistribute wealth using a confiscatory tax code…) Based on my recent experience as a law student, some of the more extreme members of the base seem to actually leapfrog socialism to embrace communism.

Anyways, BW was very happy for the opportunity to speak with him as he hasn’t granted an interview since he was here in October. She thinks people will be surprised by the interview. She has already received feedback from people expressing concerns about giving Chavez a venue to air his views- one reason people are concerned- the man is a dictator. Why would that be a concern to people?

She has noticed it is the same kind of response she gets when Castro is interviewed. (Shocking!) BW: “There are those who think he’s, well, done some good and then the people who are here who think he has done a great deal of harm.” (I was not sure if she was referring to Castro or Chavez with that comment, but then again, is there a real difference?)

She acknowledges he is controversial and that he is a socialist who “wants to spread socialism throughout Latin America.”

Barbara, Barbara, Barbara… He is the President of one country in Latin America who has decided that all of Latin America should be socialist. HELLO? ANYBODY HOME? Maybe, just maybe, not all of the people of the 20 countries in Latin America agree with him…

One way he may spread Socialism throughout Latin America will be to eliminate the International Monetary Fund from Latin America and replace it with the Bank of the South. http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1981

While I am not necessarily a fan of the IMF, Chavez would have us, and the people in the countries of Latin America, believe the Bank of the South will eliminate the “abuse” that Latin American countries have endured under the Bank of the North. (i.e. the IMF) Chavez has used the wealth amassed from the oil revenue in Venezuela to loan $2.5 billion to Argentina and $1.5 billion to Bolivia, for example. Suddenly, borrowing money from Chavez will ensure the economic prosperity of his Latin American neighbors. Look out, Bolivia! When you can’t pay up, Chavez may become your President, as well.

Joy: “So it depends on your socio-economic status whether you like him or not.”

BW: “If you are poor in Venezuela you like him if you’ve got some money you’re afraid he is going to take your house away.”

Venezuela is not a wealthy country but it does have the 7^th largest oil reserve in the world, as of 2005. (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_res-energy-oil-reserves) That being said, the people of Venezuela live in poverty to an extent that we in the United States and the rest of the developed world would not tolerate. The GDP per capita in Venezuela was just over $6000 in 2006. In the U.S. the GDP per capita in 2006 was over $39,000.

Although Chavez probably believes he and Castro are the two people who have the leadership skills necessary to give socialism a chance to work, Chavez should read the history books. Socialism is a failed experiment. It has never worked, anywhere. The only economic systems that will work long term must utilize principles of capitalism and the free market. Over time, the Venezuelan markets Chavez’s government now controls will begin to fail or under perform. Without incentive for personal gain, the average person will decrease their output and become an additional drain on the system. Eventually those taking will far outnumber those giving and the system will implode.

Capitalism may be messy. It may challenge those people who do not want to work. As any parent can tell you, rewarding bad behavior only makes behavior worse. Capitalism rewards the achievers. It is the achievers who pay taxes. It is the achievers who will contribute talent, resources and money to the people of their communities. If the achievers are beaten down, threatened and generally under appreciated, they will cease striving to achieve.

Inflation in Venezuela was 17% in 2006. The earnings of the average citizen can not keep up with the average rise in prices for consumable goods. This may be why Chavez has repeatedly raised the minimum wage and expanded welfare. Not surprisingly, those people living on minimum wage and living on the welfare system voted for him in the last election. He is building a culture of dependence. His policy decisions are designed to guarantee his position of power, not help the poor.

After a break they resume their discussion of Chavez: “He is not crazy. This is a very sane man. He does not hate the United States he does hate George Bush.”

Chavez may be able to convince simpletons that he loves America. Let us use reason to understand: He loves the ground we live on- the terra firma. Chavez does not love the American Dream or the ideas that have made America great. He cannot love these things because they stand in direct opposition to what he craves- a socialist state.

Chavez and others like him have convinced people like Joy to believe that holding elections in which people are able to vote for candidate A or B demonstrates a well-functioning democracy, unless George Bush or some other conservative won. (Consider for a moment how easy it is for liberals to believe that people like Chavez and Castro won legitimate elections- that there was no voter intimidation- but that in the United States, the minority vote is suppressed because of intimidation. Incredible.)

A true democracy is simply rule by the people. Pure democracy is potentially one of the most dangerous forms of government because, unchecked, it allows mob rule and complete suppression of the minority. Also, when people are denied access to information, when the press is not free, when individuals who dissent go punished, there is no freedom.

Bush’s goal has not been to spread democracy around the world. Whether he was right or wrong, George Bush has tried to advance the notion that all people have the right to be free: free to speak their minds, to practice their religious beliefs, to read a newspaper that has not been censored, to keep what they earn… Bush has tried to spread the concepts of freedom found in our founding documents to other countries because he believes that as long as there are governments that squelch freedom, the freedom in America is also threatened.

Back to the View: BW wants us to be sure to remember that Venezuela owns Citgo and they gave reduced price oil to Katrina, to people who needed it in the east.… (Joy piped in "...to hundreds of thousands of people.") BW continues: It’s good PR but it’s also a good thing to do.

I want to personally thank Chavez for all of this good will. It makes up for everything he has ever done to violate human rights, suppress freedom and belittle our country.

To be fair, after all of this praise, BW wants us to note there are some issues: “He wants to be president forever… he has a lot of things that are not quite so wonderful.” Really… that brief comment did a lot to undermine the lengthy discussion in support of the man.

Joy: “He also had a failed military coup first and then he was elected correctly so I know myself.” (See commentary above as to whether Chavez was elected “correctly.”)

Finally we see an actual excerpt from Chavez interview:

On his coffee habit of drinking more than 20 cups a day: “If I had to quit it, I would quit it… I have left home, my kids, I see them every now and then. I left what is dearest to me. I had to abandon them. I do not regret it because my life is devoted to the poor of the earth.”

Note again his belief he is devoted to the poor of the earth, not the poor of Venezuela, not the poor of Latin America but the poor of the earth. This is heavy and heady business: No one would ever expect him to give up coffee: let’s allow him this one vice.

BW then asked: What is the biggest misconception about you?

Chavez goes on about some lady asking him a question and then explains that he doesn’t hate the United States. He blames the media for perpetuating this notion: “They only publish the pictures to demonize Hugo Chavez. I haven’t caused any harm to the people of the United States. What could I do against the U.S. people or against any people of the world? We just want to be friends and we want to extend our helping hand. That’s all.”

Thanks Hugo, but we will be fine without your help.

In conclusion, BW again says that Chavez wants to have a socialistic Latin America, and that he thinks capitalism is the scourge of the world.

When Elizabeth rightly questions how he could be against Bush in terms of business when Bush policies have brought billions of dollars to Venezuela, BW notes: That is not what he is against. Chavez is against the war in Iraq. Also, Bush is an imperialist.

An Imperialist strives to take control of other countries through economic policy or occupation. No one could argue the U.S. is trying to colonize Latin America. One could clearly argue the transfer of 20 million Latin Americans into our country as illegal aliens might be a start on their end.

Also, the United States under Bush has advanced policies that have funneled billions of dollars into the Latin American economies. Again, into their economies, not out of their economies.

History may prove that Bush’s belief he could help the United States by helping these countries was totally misguided.

A rising tide might lift all boats. If the rising tide is a wall of water, all the boats could capsize.

No matter how nice he was to Barbara, I do not want to share a life boat with Hugo Chavez.