Posted by
Shogrensus on Friday, May 18, 2007 2:26:31 AM
After a slow first segment, the women picked up speed after the break:
Joy watched the “debate” and commented on the interactions between Texas Congressman Ron Paul and Rudy Giuliani.
First she refers to Paul as “very conservative” which is slightly off. He is a staunch libertarian. Libertarians are often conservative but their views actually swing liberal at times.
The talk then heats up:
***
Joy: I had never heard of him before and yet I thought he was just right on the money.
Elisabeth: You did. How so?
Joy: Basically he was saying we need to rethink what we are doing in the Middle East as policy rather than just being angry and reacting the way we do.
Elisabeth: But he didn’t say it that way
Joy: Well if you saw him on CNN later he elaborated
Elisabeth: Right. But during the debate what he had said was the reason he essentially in so many words said that the reason why maybe 9/11 happened was that we had been attacking them for 10 years
Rosie: That’s not what he said
Joy: No no
Elisabeth: we had been- people interpreted what he is saying
Rosie: That’s why I wanted the clip. That’s how Rudy Giuliani interpreted it
Elisabeth: Well- he did say we had been there for 10 years – didn’t he say that?
Joy: Yes- but he also says we are building, we are building bases- 14 permanent bases in Iraq now. He says ‘what would we say if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico? Would we be objecting?’
Elisabeth: We don’t need them here
Joy: We need to look at what we do from the perspective of what would happen if somebody else did it to us. That’s all he is saying. All he is saying is that instead of just being a knee jerk like Rudy Giuliani- and you know Rudy Giuliani is not the only one who can respond to 9/11. Excuse me
Elisabeth: But he is the one who did
Joy: He happened to be there. So were we. We were all there. Also the point is that there are other people in the country, including Ron Paul, who have another way of looking at Middle Eastern policy and we should be listening to those people too.
Elisabeth: That’s like saying…We are listening to them. We are hearing them loud and clear, however
***
I wish people like Joy would listen to the few Democrats who actually seem to understand the risks terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism pose to world stability.
***
Rosie: Elisabeth- Let Elisabeth speak- I’m the moderator
Joy (laughing): Shut up
Elisabeth: A couple of things struck me as interesting. He seemed to link 9/11 to Iraq which you never hear, number 1. Do you agree with him on that?
Joy: Who?
Elisabeth: Ron Paul.
Chandra: He linked the region
Elisabeth: he linked the region. Okay – so that was something you really don’t hear ever- especially from someone with your beliefs
Joy: Yeah- go ahead
Elisabeth: and also he’s all about non-interference in the world. So what are we supposed to do? Apologize and never interfere when safety is at risk
Joy: No, No- just rethink
Elisabeth: Sorry Mussolini. Sorry Stalin. Noriega. What were we thinking?
Joy: no, no, no don’t go back to that. He’s talking about Democrats also. He’s not just talking about Republicans
Elisabeth: This is not about – I don’t think this is partisan
Joy: He’s talking about how we supported the Shah of Iran. How we have bases in Saudi Arabia which they consider to be a Holy Land. That is an infraction in many ways. And so we have to take the blame and the responsibility for what we do also and not just attack willy nilly.
***
So now we have attacked Iraq “willy nilly” and something has to change.
There was nothing willy nilly about the need for America to demonstrate its strength to those who would consider threatening us. Saddam either had or lied about having WMD. Either way, I am glad he is gone. There is nothing willy nilly about trying to promote freedom in an area of the world in which most of the governments are permeated by fanaticism. We need to hope the good people in the Middle East will be emboldened to pull together and demand freedom. They will not be able to do this without support.
The United States remains the world's best hope. People like Joy and Rosie, who choose to look at the negative in America and the good in every other country are missing the point and undermining our chances to succeed in our efforts to promote freedom. This is not to say the U.S. should involve itself in every skirmish around the globe.
I would take the position, however, that we have a duty try to support those who seek to further freedom and democracy and we should not assist those governments that seek to minimize freedom. This includes our need to reevaluate our relationship with a country like Saudi Arabia.