Obviously the massacre at Virginia Tech is one of the most horrific tragedies that has occurred in the United States in our lifetimes.

Today the show started out with a discussion about why NBC, and every other news source, play the video this deranged young man made chronicling his view of why the carnage was necessary?

Barbara called the networks to find out what they were going to do and shared their answers which ranged from we won't show any more video (ABC) to we won't show it any more than 6 minutes per hour. This led them into a discussion of violence in our culture.

***
Elisabeth: We’re in a world now where people buy video games that are so violent. They love shows that are so violent. So after a while it becomes a twisted form of entertainment, like they said, almost pornography.

Rosie: We’ll watch it as entertainment, as fiction we will buy it. But the reality of it- no one wants to see. Like in terms of the war at least. You know these 33 kids- horrible. Everyone agrees. 3000 kids, don’t show us them.

***

We do live in a culture in which many people find violence entertaining.  This has been increasingly true over the last several decades. It would be interesting to discuss whether all violent entertainment is equal in its effect on the viewer or participant.

If the violence in a movie, say Die Hard, is about the ultimate victory of good over evil, is that all bad?  If the violence in a song or video glorifies killing police officers, is that morally equivalent?

Is there a difference between watching a James Bond movie and playing a video game in which the player pretends to be an FBI agent tracking serial killers?  Is there a difference between passive observation of a movie or specific TV show and playing a game over and over and over again?

It is true that many people enjoy watching shows like CSI and 24.   Reasonable people understand that when a counter-terrorist agent on 24 hurts a suspected (known) terrorist, it is fake. The viewers are often rooting for Jack to hurt the terrorist and they may even hope that there really is a Jack out there, hunting these people down to keep us all safe.  These viewers do not leave their homes and kill people.  Most of these people do not have some bloodlust that would lead them to voyeuristically watch actual violence.
 
Even if people watch the video of the shooter, most people do not want to see video of the victims of the shootings. Just like they don't want to see video of our soldiers being attacked. This does not make every viewer of violent entertainment an ostrich with his or her head in the sand.

It is inhuman to want to watch or inflict actual suffering as entertainment. The viewers of things like snuff films are deeply disturbed. People who enjoy hurting other people or watching other people be hurt have mental health problems.

People around the country have been offended by the incessant showing of this man's rants because he was obviously deeply disturbed. He was an irrational person who most likely should have been institutionalized.  There is nothing pleasurable about watching this sort of tragedy.

Networks should be careful to show the tapes repeatedly because there is a fraction of our society that will be influenced by the footage and may consider copying his actions to get the same sort of attention.

This has nothing in common with showing footage of our soldiers, who are fighting against an enemy that ignores all rules of war in order to harm our soldiers, the legitimate Iraqi soldiers and police officers fighting on behalf of their country and the innocent civilians in Iraq. 

I wonder if Rosie, who has repeated stated her desire to have footage shown of Americans soldiers who have been injured or killed, also wants to show footage of insurgents who have been wounded or killed.  If our media would report on the positive things and the victories that do occur in Iraq, maybe there would be more support for our efforts there and maybe that increased support would help to undermine the confidence of the opposition. 

Had the media shown these sorts of successes from the beginning of the war effort, maybe the war effort would have been more successful.

Rosie isn't interested in the truth about the war effort.  She wants us to pull out of Iraq and anything that the media can do to undermine our continued involvement would be worth it to her.  This includes showing whatever footage possible of wounded and dead soldiers.

 
As the women introduced Aisha Tyler, guest hosting for Elisabeth, they discussed her upcoming photo spread in Glamour magazine.  She was shot nude, but discreetly, to demonstrate that not all women celebrities are obsessed with thin and they don't all have perfect bodies.

***
Aisha: It was really an article about women embracing their bodies. And kind of along the lines of you know all the crazy anorexia going on in Hollywood and the model that died from starving herself to do a story about the fact that celebrities bodies were not perfect. Embrace who you are to live strong. Some women are obsessed with being thin.

***

Aisha, if you think that you are the poster child for not thin women, you need a new mirror.  (Click here to see photos of Aisha)

This is the kind of topic upon which the View should focus.  They should bring on people to talk about culture and then go deeper- maybe have some of the other women involved in the photo shoot for Glamour on the show. ET has a piece online (click here to read) that gives more info about those involved: plus size model Kailee O'Sullivan, for example.

It is great to raise awareness about anorexia, an increasing problem in our society.  I just question how we determine which people are best able to be role models for young girls in their quest to develop healthy lifestyles.

This blog is a day late. I was going to give Elisabeth a pass on her comments yesterday about impeaching Cheney before impeaching Bush but I just can’t.

***

Rosie: I am reregistering as an independent…I am so sick of the Democrats doing nothing. I am so sick of the Republicans ruining the country I am literally registering as an independent because I am sick of both parties.
Joy: I have two words for you: Ralph Nadar.
Rosie: I am not saying Joy that I am going to vote for the Ind candidate.
Joy: no but you have influence
Rosie: No but I am saying this: My influence, if I had any influence somebody would be calling for the impeachment of the President. Somebody in the congress or the senate
Elisabeth: But see hang on. You wouldn’t want to call for the impeachment of the Vice-President first then wouldn’t you cause then Cheney would be in charge
Rosie: Both of them because they are both criminals
Joy: Cheney would be President. No. No.
Elisabeth: That’s what I am saying. If you’re going to call for it make sure it’s in the right order.
Rosie: All my t-shirts, Elisabeth, say “Impeach Cheney First”
Elisabeth: Okay good. I was just checking

***


First, could someone explain to Rosie that only the House of Representatives can impeach the President for treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors. If the House impeaches the President, the Senate may then try the President. If the President or other official were impeached and then found guilty he or she would be automatically removed from office. (See the Constitution, Article I Sections 2 and 3)

Elisabeth, you are the only hope for reason on the show.  Why encourage the talk of impeachment?  There is nothing funny about this. Especially now.  There is a reason that no one is seeking the impeachment of these men: They do not think they have the grounds to do so.

When your co-hosts refer to the President and Vice President as criminals you should put their feet to the fire.  Your laughter makes you complicit in their statements.

What a disappointment.

Rosie would like to pass more gun control laws so that we can take illegal guns away from people like the shooter in Monday's massacre at Virginia Tech:

***

Rosie: Every other civilized country in the world has sensible gun legislation. No one is trying to take away the right of hunters to hunt. We’re trying to take away illegal handguns the kind that were used in this
Joy: Or AK- 47 what do they need them
Rosie: Semi-automatic weapons. But it’s a futile argument. It’s futile because you can fight, you can yell. They’re organized. They’re scary and they have weapons. The NRA
Elisabeth: So you’re saying it’s a tough battle to win
Rosie: I am not saying it’s tough, I’m saying its impossible. In my opinion it’s futile. It’s impossible.

***

Who knows what sort of gun legislation every other country in the world has and frankly who cares?

If the shooter had an illegal gun, then we don't need another law to take his gun away. The key is to determine how exactly he acquired his gun and whether the laws were followed.  Was this young man competent to purchase a gun and were there any rules or regulations that would have screened him out?

If any laws were broken or rules skirted, the person responsible for those events should be punished to the full extent of the law.

In the mean time people like Rosie should take the approach used by the NRA and refrain to comment on this situation until the facts are known.

The NRA may be strong, and it is definitely organized, but it is not scary. At least not to law abiding citizens who respect the Constitution.

Who knew Joy was a Constitutional Law expert?

***

Joy: I was saying this morning and I’ll repeat it again: When the Founding Fathers created the First Amendment, well when we created the First Amendment and the Second Amendment which is the right to bear arms, they did not foresee AK-47 rifles and they did not foresee racist or maybe they did foresee racist speech since slavery was in effect at that time. They did not foresee slurred speech against individual groups or this and that. So, it’s almost like if you think about it the First and Second Amendments are on the carpet this week, both of them. You know you can see that there are extremes and I am a big First Amendment advocate because 'sticks and stones can break my bones but names will never harm me' is the way I was raised. But with the Second Amendment I think it is a little bit more dangerous than speech so I am a
Rosie: When the forefathers were writing the Constitution they were talking about muskets and cannons that it took 20 men to roll up a hill to shoot. They weren’t talking about a 9mm gun with 12 bullets that you can reload in 3 seconds and shoot 33 people. They weren’t thinking this because it wasn’t possible to imagine.
Elisabeth: It puts the human balance off because one person can then kill 33 including himself
Joy: But they couldn’t also imagine YouTube they couldn’t imagine Don Imus, Howard Stern, us.
Rosie: Listen, no one died because of Don Imus. No one died because of Don Imus.
Joy: That’s my point. That’s my point. The two of them are on the carpet this week but I think one is more relevant and more dangerous than the other

***
In a very brief nutshell, the Founding Fathers wrote the Bill of Rights to protect the citizens from the potential tyrannical government. The rights described in the Bill of Rights were not granted by the government but rather guaranteed via the Constitution.  These rights were the rights of individuals.

The Founding Fathers also wrote into the Constitution a process for amending the Constitution, hence the 27 Amendments found following the Constitution.

The Founding Fathers did not need to imagine the possibility of AK-47s or any other modern day item or issue.  The put into place a mechanism for the citizens of this country to rise up and demand the government act in a certain manner.

If the citizens of the United States want to amend the Constitution to alter the people's access to guns then the citizens can do that.  Until then, the NRA will continue to serve as one of the most powerful lobbying groups in Washington, fighting to protect one of the most basic inalienable rights identified by the Founding Fathers to whom Joy refers. 

President and Laura Bush attended the memorial service for the victims of the shooting. For some reason, this was problematic for Rosie. She felt the need to compare the victims of the shooting to the people in Louisiana who faced Hurricane Katrina.

**

Rosie: … and I also think after 9/11 after Katrina you know it was interesting to me President Bush is flying to Virginia Tech today and it took him a week to get to Virginia , to Katrina to visit the victims.

Joy: Don’t you think he learned a lesson?

Rosie: To me, and I am not trying to cast aspersions on President Bush in the middle of this crisis, but I am trying to say is you can’t pretend that it’s the same. How many people died in Katrina? How many people were on roofs for weeks?

**

Rosie is trying to cast aspersions on President Bush and she is being disingenuous to suggest anything different. If Bush had decided not to attend the memorial service Rosie would have criticized him for not caring about the students.

Since she brought it up, at some point people should begin to wonder why the President should be required to travel around the country, examining natural disasters. Why does this make people feel better? Isn’t this what Governors are for? Can’t the people at FEMA report to the President? It is an incredible waste of time and resources to send the President and his entourage (whether Democrat or Republican) to view these natural disasters.

And yes it is true that more people died as a result of Hurricane Katrina than as a result of this shooting, but had people paid attention to warnings, many of those people would not have died. There were people on rooftops in the first couple of days following the storm but to suggest that many people lived on their rooftops for weeks is at least a bit of an exaggeration. Again, had these people listened to weather forecasters for the week leading up to the hurricane, they could have left town to go inland.

The people of New Orleans elected their incompetent mayor. The people of Louisiana elected their Governor. The people of Louisiana failed to ensure that their elected officials had prepared their state for a hurricane like Katrina. This is a bit like 55 year old people complaining that Social Security is going bust.

The kids and the teachers who were killed did not have 5 days to decide whether or not to leave the building they were in. The victims of this crime had no control over the actions of the shooter.

President Bush had 32 good reasons to go to the service. Rosie may be upset, but she should try to remain accurate and she should be fair.

Rosie, clearly very upset, spoke of her involvement with the Million Mom March and its efforts to expand gun control following Columbine in 1999.

*****
Rosie: And you know since 1999, Columbine, what happened? All the mothers got together in America- we formed the Million Mom March. We marched on Washington- estimates of almost 2 million mothers there. We protested, we picketed against the NRA and for the government to make sensible gun legislation and what has happened since then? Nothing. Nothing. I am shocked that I am numb about it. I am shocked that you know Columbine which took me out at the knees, literally, where I thought I would never recover and went on anti-depressants. I thought I don’t know how I had a child like your, like you do. I was your age with a baby and the concept of sending them away from the school from the nest, of the dangers that lurk out there-but somehow this one, I am almost numb to it. I think, well here we go again.
Joy: Do you feel that it’s worthless its useless to protest to raise your voice against gun control? For gun control?
Rosie: I think there will never be gun control in America and I think having tried to fight it for five years of my life it was a futile attempt.

*****

While she states that there were estimates of 2 million moms marching on Washington in support of gun control, other estimates ranged from tens of thousands to a maximum of 750,000. While the moms made a valiant effort to turn out in droves, the turnout was far below projected numbers. Distorting facts does not support her cause.

The tens of thousands of moms who marched on Washington weren't really picketing the NRA, they were protesting the Second Amendment. The right to bear arms was firmly entrenched in the Constitution in 1791 in the Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights, whether they like it or not. 

The most recent court decision about gun rights comes out of the DC Court of Appeals, that ruled that a DC gun ban violated individual gun ownership rights.(Click here to read) 

The moms, and any one else who wants to promote gun control through legislative initiatives must root their position in Constitutionally sound arguments or they will lose. Rosie's frustration is indicative of the difficulty inherent in developing such an argument.

Rosie and the moms will have a tough row to hoe if they decide to politicize this tragic event by using it to push a gun control agenda.  One mentally ill young man should not have the power, or importance, to usurp the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment.

After Maher insulted Elisabeth and all other religious people on the planet, Joy continued the talk with some occasional input by Elisabeth.:

Joy: What about people who just like to go to church? You know the old ladies in my neighborhood who used to light a candle, it made them feel good. Their husbands died, they feel better
BM: They’re certainly better than the people who fly planes into buildings yes but they are enablers for something that is worldwide and winds up killing more people, distracting us from more good works to be done
Elisabeth: So you think all faith is a distraction?
Joy: It’s never going to change
BM: I think all faith is a distraction. I think it’s the greatest con in the world. They’re selling an invisible product. If some human tells you...
Elisabeth: I am buying it then, apparently
BM: You are like millions are, but but but but
Barbara: There are many books written about this side of it
Joy: You don’t hear this side of it
BM: Not in this country. But in Europe they’re over religion.  It’s this country is a very religious country. If somebody tells you what happens when you die and who God is, just remember unless a God told you himself, and if he did we’ll call Bellevue, that’s another human being telling you what happens when you die. Why don’t you say to that human being ‘How do you know? How do you know?'
Barbara: Something like 87% of people in this country, because we did a whole program last year on Heaven and how do you get there, believe in Heaven and believe that they are going to get there and if this gives them solace or faith…

Well, if Europe is over religion, it would only make sense that the United States should get over religion as well.  It seems Mr. Maher thinks Europe isn't struggling with any of the issues we in America struggle with every day.  There is, apparently, no racism in Europe as the secularists all value each other equally.  

According to Maher, the reason he doesn't run for political office is that his campaign slogan would be "Religion is bad. Drugs are good." He knows it wouldn't play well...

The women begin a dialogue in which Rosie and Barbara seem to be quiet observers as Joy takes the lead:

Joy: Is it all religion and all drugs? Or some religion and some drugs?
BM: Of course not. I would say all religion, yeah.
Joy: All religion is bad
BM: Yeah, pretty much all religion. I mean there are varying degrees. But it’s all very you know childish destructive nonsense in my view.
Elisabeth: Gosh, I so disagree with that
BM: Of course you do. (laughter)
Elisabeth: Of course I do

This is a great example of how Elisabeth just can not hold her own on the show, no matter how likeable she is.  As Maher makes fun of her with his "Of course you do" comment, Elisabeth barely utters a response.

Maher dismissed religion in an incredibly negative manner and no one thought to legitimately counter his opinion, which would be opposed by over 90% of Americans who do consider themselves religious.

This need for leftists to belittle the religious beliefs of Americans is a sad testament to how far from our roots this nation is beginning to stray.

Speaking of People Who Push the limits of Free Speech: The View Welcomed Bill Maher

Joy: Bill Maher is fearless about giving his unique perspective on everything from politics to pop culture. Even to religion…

While it is not okay in America to joke about racial issues, it seems joking about religion is fair game:

Maher got beeped for language, presumably for uttering a slur against a Judeo-Christian religious figure.

Rosie: If you would have said “oh Muhammad, what did I say today?’ you would have been alright.

BM: That’s a little dicier ‘cause that’s a religion of peace. And if you don’t agree with that they’ll kill ya.

Hmmm...

There was just a little tension on the show when Rosie appeared to over-step her bounds by attempting to drag Barbara back into the Donald Trump war. After her little slam on Delay, Rosie then segues into a blast on Donald Trump. After explaining her poor joke about Chinese journalists, Rosie seems to want us to believe her commentary never sinks to name calling in the manner of Imus or Donald Trump:

Rosie: That was name-calling. It was sort of like what Donald Trump did. You know, I stated, no here’s the thing: I made fun of his hair but then I stated facts and opinions
Barbara: Some of which were incorrect
Rosie: Right. That he says he was never personally bankrupt; that his company had declared bankruptcy with his name on it but he was never personally bankrupt. But he responded not with jokes but with “She’s a fat degenerate stupid woman.”
Joy: You are playing into his hands again because his show is teetering again. He’ll be right back with the assault. Just watch.
Rosie: Listen, I’m not playing into his hands. Do you want to hear what a 61 year old business man did today? He sent Barbara-
Barbara: This is for me to say. This was sent for me. It was not sent for you.
Rosie: Go ahead you say it-
Barbara: No. I don’t want to. I really do not want to stir up the whole Donald Trump thing again.

Clearly, Trump is the 61 year old business man to whom Rosie refers. 

What did he send to Barbara?

Should Barbara have told Rosie about it?

Did Barbara know Rosie was going to mention the situation on the air?

If Rosie went outside of Barbara's wishes in making her comments today, Walters should be furious. If Walters knew Rosie was going to make the comments and the "I don't want to say it" line was a part of the plan, they both should be held accountable by their viewers.

Hopefully Trump will let us all know what the big secret is and we'll be able to decide who is currently winning the Donald vs. Rosie war. 

First,  Tom Delay blogged about Rosie:

"And for the contextual icing on the cake, where are the repercussions for Rosie O’Donnell’s hateful, idiotic accusations that President Bush was behind the 9/11 attacks? And her ignorant parody of the Chinese language? Or her comparison of conservative Christians to Islamo-fascist terrorists? Why has ABC not suspended her from The View? Why has she not been frog-marched up to some radio show to apologize to 9/11 victims/Chinese-American activists/evangelical Christians?

What the Left is doing is not a fluke – it’s a concerted strategy. And it works. So if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em. That’s why I am calling on conservatives to use the available media (radio talk shows, blogs, letters to the editor) to protest and demand that Rosie O’Donnell be kicked off The View. Where are the demonstrations in front of ABC? Where are the boycott threats for The View’s advertisers, or its parent company, Disney? Who is holding Barbara Walters accountable for Rosie’s offenses? We can fight like the Left, too. If Don Imus falls to the pleas of political correctness, we’re taking Rosie O’Donnell down with him. "

Now, today Rosie tries to justify her often inappropriate behavior by pseudo explaining her very poor joke about Chinese journalists discussing a drunken Danny DeVito. (For a great example of free speech, check out Michelle Malkin's response to Rosie back in December.)

Rosie: I think we are in dangerous territory when people like Tom Delay, a man of high moral standards (pregnant pause) when people like Tom Delay want me to be fired for my political opinions, that’s a dangerous state of affairs here in a democracy.
Elisabeth: That’s taking things too far.
Rosie: If you have a dissenting opinion, you know, that you are somehow a threat to the country or the world if you wan to bring up a subject or question something in our government or that our government is doing you’re somehow not patriotic and therefore should be off the air that’s when were…
Barbara: Is that the reasoning that he’s given?
Rosie: First he said ‘she was so very offensive to the Chinese people ’cause he has been really so supportive and encouraging of the plight of Chinese in America his whole life and career, Mr. Delay. And um, when I made that joke, the point of the joke being the absurdity of a Danny DeVito being drunk story being international news. See there’s a joke. The point of the joke was the absurdity of a drunk actor making the international news in other countries. Calling someone descriptions- Imus didn’t make a joke. That wasn’t a joke.

Rosie can not take criticism.  If she claims the right to say whatever she wants and criticize any person she disagrees with- generally using personal attacks that are often intended to be political commentary not jokes- then she needs to learn to take it, as well.

Delay's point was not limited to her ridiculous comments about the chinese journalists and DeVito.  His point was that Rosie often makes fun of other people and cultures. His example about Christians was right on the money. Not all Christians deserve to be made fun of when George Bush or some other religious leader makes a mistake. Rosie is a grouper- blame one, blame them all.

I do not agree that Rosie should be taken off the show because of her comments.  I think Rosie is the best thing on TV for conservatives because she so clearly demonstrates the lunacy of the left.  We need people like her to put a face on the real threat facing the Unites States. These secular leftists who ignore the very roots of country and choose to preach talking points rather than engage in a discussion about issues (remember her chastising Elisabeth to stop blathering) must be confronted.

ABC could improve the situation on the View if they would hire a conservative woman who could actually stand up to Rosie.  Elisabeth seems like a very sweet woman but she is simply no match for Rosie. She never seems quite up to the challenge of putting Rosie in her place and that discredits the conservative arguments against Rosie's positions.

Ultimately, corporations should make decisions about morality clauses when they sign these celebrities and they should be very clear about what behavior will be tolerated. If a corporation suffers financially because the market turns on a shock jock, or a comedian, that corporation will generally sever the relationship.

My hope for conservatives: that they take the high road in avoiding personal attacks but that they make public every inappropriate thing the leftists do and say. .

Let Rosie stay but make her defend herself.

The women have a lot to think about today. The use of the “B” word and the “H” word have occurred in the past and now, after the Imus flap, things may need to change.

Barbara raisews a question about the appropriateness of Whoopi Goldberg’s production company being named “One Ho Productions”

I think self-deprecating humor is okay, especially in this case as she made no mention of her own hair.

Rosie announced she is maxing out her campaign contributions to Al Franken as he begins his effort to become Minnesota's Senator in 2008.

As a life-long Minnesotan I would like to say: Rosie, please keep your New York and Florida money out of my Minnesota Senate race. 

I am not a big fan of any of the campaign finance rules Congress has passed but I will say that each state has two senators whose job is to represent the people of that particular state.  In the ideal world, local money would be spent on local elections.  I would prefer my Senator felt beholden to Minnesotans, not friends and acquaintances from around the country.

In the mean time, all you conservative out-of-state people with money, please send money to the conservative candidate of your choice to counter the Rosie types trying to influence the outcome of this election.

The Minnesota seat, currently held by Norm Coleman (a Republican, but certainly not a staunch conservative, by any stretch of the imagination) will be the subject of the what may be the most expensive senate race in history. Stay tuned: the race will be one to watch.

Halle Berry will be starring in the upcoming movie: "Nappily Ever After" about an African-American woman who sheds her long, processed hair and her boyfriend in one fell swoop. The movie, based on a novel by Trisha R. Thomas will be released in 2008.

Berry assured the women on the View that the title will not be changed because of the Imus flap.