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June 1, 2007

Guest host: Lori Stokes

Much of the show was preempted in Minnesota today because a construction site collapsed and trapped a construction worker. The local ABC affiliate stayed on the story so here is all I got:

The View may be denigrating from a show that dabbles in politics to a show that uses discussions of sex to maintain its ratings:

The first segment of the show raised several issues about sex: Joy discussed her daughter’s questions about lions fornicating which led into a Glamour Magazine survey about Sex: 20% of women surveyed answer their phone during sex.

Joy noted that everyone uses their blackberry all of the time..

By the way, what kind of women respond to surveys by Glamour Magazine?

BW went on: 41% of women think it’s rude for a man to leave after sex. Her response:

BW: Personally I think it’s terrific

A perfect time for the local affiliate to cut in…

Based on what I saw today, I doubt I missed much. Friday’s shows are prerecorded on Wednesdays so they rarely hit very many “hot topics” but someone feel free to let me know if I am wrong…

May 31, 2007

Whoopi guest hosted today. 

I like her more and more. She asks good questions and seems to get the need to think more deeply than the sound bites.

Barbara was shocked to learn that Whoopi is not a liberal democrat. She says she hasn’t found her party yet…

Elisabeth spoke about her surprise that Hilary Clinton’s average campaign contribution was $100.00. Her shock related to the correlation that she received contributions from many more people than Rudy Giuliani, who received large contributions from a few people.

For accurate info about Hilary’s campaign contributions click on the following link:

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/finance/2007/q1/hillary-clinton/

Hilary’s average contribution is currently at $370.00.

Edwards: $350

Obama: $246.

Romney $646

Giuliani: $519

McCain: $259

I am not sure what this means but the information available at the Washington Times is interesting.

The most interesting information about Clinton's fundraising has nothing to do with Elisabeth’s point about Hilary’s campaign contributions from the little people. The real story is about how much of her fundraising is tied to Hollywood and NYC elites, her husband's armtwisting and the very far left. An example of her problem: Abdul Rehman Jinnah (click here and here and here)

Stay tuned for more info...

Tuesday, May 30

 Things continue to move slowly on the View.

Suze Orman was on today.  The most controversial thing that happened: she tried to get everyone to say how much money they made.

They featured many women who have been successful in business- how they made it, what they recommend people do to start a business...  It might be slightly interesting to some- the women featured on the show are role models- but this will not hold the interest of viewers for long.

There is so much happening in the world today that you would think that perhaps the women would raise the issues: Russia and intercontinental ballistic missiles, Chavez and the many protests in Venezuela following the crackdown on the media, Tripoli, the horrifying bad immigration bill, Hilary Clinton's comments on sharing prosperity, Fred Thompson getting closer to entering the presidential race...

Millions of women tune in to the View and to the Hot Topics to hear what's going on in the world.

May 29, 2007

Whoopi guest hosted today.

BW opens by professing her never ending love for O’Donnell. If this is true, she should be working to get her some better help. No friend would have stood by watching the meltdown. Sad…

Elisabeth apparently spent her holiday weekend emailing Rosie so they can begin the process for forgiveness… Which person is forgiving the other for what? Whatever… In her little video about her send-off show at the View Rosie, with beer in hand, makes the point that she does not plan to talk to Elisabeth ever: (click: http://www.rosie.com/blog/wp-content/themes/rosie2/fs2.php?vid=2007-05-26-satnite.flv)

Great discussions start it off- lots of talk about when Joy’s dog got married, BW was in the wedding party…

Whoopi is right- we are overly reliant on technology. Kids don’t learn to spell, to perform functional math.

Second segment- Lindsay Lohan is an addict. Where does she get her liquor? Where is her mom? (Those two questions may me inexorably linked.) Some police department should throw the book at Lohan and her supplier. Maybe we should have a special jail for these bimbettes- Paris, Lindsey and Britney are such good examples of everything we should fear for our children.

I for one am happy that my daughters (aged 8 and 10) see pictures of these women and pronounce them to be many things, including irresponsible, inappropriate and embarrassing. Lets hope they (my daughters) maintain their sensibilities.

Third segment- they need ratings so are talking about sex and porn. Whoopi has studied this issue and observed that many societal trends are influenced by porn- an example noted is the girlification of women- hair removal, immature bodies, etc. I don't know if porn creates the trends but I know that neither issue is really of concern to me.  I won't be watching porn to figure out what young, promiscuous women will be doing soon.  Whoopi can publish a study for me...

Jimmy Falon, from Saturday Night Live, was on the show: He gave Elisabeth a permanent marker for her birthday: A very funny, not so subtle, reference to the Janette Barber moustache incident.

Falon promoted his new song “Carwash for Peace” available exclusively through iTunes. All of his profits will go to support Fisher House- an organization that supports the troops. For more information click on http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=190574064

A pretty tame show to kick off the After Rosie era…

Friday and Monday were prerecorded before the O'Donnell disaster so I have to say I took a long weekend.

This morning things are breaking about Rosie's pre show rant about September 11th and her conspiracy theories.  Check it out at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTMB7nM43Sc&embed=1

ABC should have fired her, if they didn't.  Rosie pushed and pushed, probably because she wanted out.


Also ridiculous is the video made by O'Donnell to talk about the May 23 breakdown.  She discusses the moustache incident with her close personal friend.

If this is happy, I would hate to see depressed. Click here to see the video:
 
http://www.rosie.com/blog/2007/05/26/no-ja-hero/

I really do hope Rosie gets some help. She is a great comic.

Yesterday Barbara Walters made the comment that the highest ratings for the show happened in February when there were no feuds.

She should consider those ratings occurred after the very public feud with The Donald.

After a quiet February the ratings dropped again- maybe because things got a little slow.

It will be interesting to see where the May ratings end up.

Barbara: Bring on a conservative who will go to the mat with Joy- who is chomping at the bit to be the star lib again. have your guest host always be liberal so that there can be a two on two chat every day about issues that matter...

 

Rosie has officially bailed. (Click here for ABC statement)

The heat has become too much. Her disappointment in Elisabeth is too great.

The show will go on and hoefully will begin to present a more balanced View of the world.

The viewers of the show deserve better than Rosie.

We'll see...

 My blog post disappeared so here it is again

Friday, May 25, 2007 2:00 PM

Sadly for me, the View was preempted by the Bush speech on Thursday so I could not personally watch the show.

It was interesting that Rosie was not on the show, supposedly because it was Kelly's birthday . It seemed from the dialogue that the party for Kelly's birthday had occurred earlier in the week. Rosie told everyone about how drunk they all got...

I did see some clips of Barbara talking very briefly about the exchange between Rosie and Elisabeth- they're all friends, everything's fine... Whatever. Rosie was out of control, Elisabeth was put in a very awkward position because Rosie was out of control and Joy was downright giddy about the whole thing.

A couple of comments based on the blowback about the exchange:

First, the controversy about the split screen is interesting. Rosie thinks it was underhanded and cheap. Because of the quick exchanges and the overtalking, it was necessary for the viewers to follow the dialogue. The people in charge had to make a split second decision on a live show about how to best bring the exchange to the viewers. It was the right decision.

Next, while no one is talking about her, I actually think Joy's demeanor was more troubling than Rosie's behavior because we expect Rosie to act inappropriately. Joy stoked the flames in the beginning and really seemed to enjoy the debacle. Elisabeth seemed shell-shocked at first but then attacked like a cornered animal. What should she have done? Should have let Rosie off the hook for her rhetorical question? Should she have let Rosie attack her personally? Elisabeth did what she needed to do.

Now we'll see what Rosie does- as she implies, via her blog, she may be done. Will she be back? Who knows- who cares. If she returns, it will be interesting to see how she behaves. I can see her sit silently to try to make some point. If she calls in sick for the next 3 weeks, Joy will be really happy and Barbara will be relieved.

Read her blog for more insight into her look on the world.
http://www.rosie.com/blog/sections/ask-ro/

Finally, what about Rosie's writer, Janette Barber, who defaced Elisabeth's photos with moustaches? How junior high is this behavior? Why does Rosie need a writer, anyway? Whose Views are we getting on the show- Barber's or Rosie's? ABC was right to escort her from the building. Her career should be over. but she should not fear- some liberal loyalist will snap her up as a reward for her use of a permanent marker...

 

The following exchange was the best 5 minutes on the View I’ve seen. Rosie made the debate personal when she attacked Elisabeth for not defending her. Elisabeth actually stood her ground in the argument – which caused Rosie to start to crack. Ultimately, they were saved by the commercial break. Read the whole exchange- it’s worth it:

***

Rosie: You’re saying to who, Elisabeth? To our enemies- the enemies in Iraq? The enemy is in Iraq?

Elisabeth: Al Qaeda

Rosie: Wait. The enemy is in Iraq

Joy: He didn’t even go after Osama Bin Laden when he was supposed to

Rosie: Elisabeth?

Elisabeth: Rosie?

Rosie: Wait, Joy- You just said our enemies in Iraq. Did Iraq attack us?

Elisabeth: No- I’m saying Al Qaeda

Rosie: Did Iraq attack us Elisabeth?

Elisabeth: Iraq did not attack us, Rosie

Rosie: Correct

Elisabeth (her patience being tried): We’ve been there before. I’m saying our enemies- Al Qaeda- Are you hearing that?

Rosie: I hear it but where do you want to go?

Joy: This is a political discussion. Don’t interview each other. Just say what you mean

Elisabeth: If you’re playing a game and I’m saying “okay I’m going to throw to my wide receiver, wide right okay. Do you do that? I’m going to do that in 2 seconds. What does that do for your enemy?

Rosie: Well you know what Elisabeth? If the enemies are innocent civilians I don’t want to play that kind of football

Elisabeth: The enemy is not innocent civilians

Rosie: Iraq didn’t attack us

Elisabeth: Wait a minute. I am not saying innocent civilians are our enemies

***

We always go back to the problem with Rosie’s position: American Troops are not killing Iraqi civilians. Terrorists, Saddam sympathizers, Iranian soldiers, Syrians and Iraqis who don’t want freedom- that’s who is killing Iraqi civilians. Fundamentalist Muslims are killing Iraqi civilians.

Because Rosie bases her argument on the fact that the American “occupation” is causing the deaths of the innocent civilians, there can be no reasoned discussion with her. Her argument is based on a premise she will not give up. Neither Elisabeth nor any republican or conservative I have listened to has said the innocent Iraqis deserve to be killed.

Our troops are in Iraq, trying to help rebuild a country that was victimized by a cruel dictator for decades. We are rebuilding Iraq much like we helped rebuild France after WWII. Thank G-d people like Rosie had no forum in 1945. Hitler would have been warned about the Allied invasion and would have met us at the beach.

The dialogue heats up as Joy shows her desire to engage in the argument. Rosie has displaced Joy the last several months. There is glee in the air as Joy watches Rosie get more and more upset. Her repeated “let me do it” and “I can do it” in reference to arguing with Elisabeth shows her desire to get back in the game. As I have said before- Joy is counting the days…:

***

Joy: Please, let’s have a conversation

Elisabeth: They’re our allies

Rosie: You know why I don’t want to do this Joy?

Joy: Let me do it

Rosie: Let me tell you why I don’t want to do it. Here’s how it gets spun in the media. “Rosie, big fat lesbian loud Rosie attacks innocent, pure, Christian Elisabeth and I’m not doing it for the rest of the

Joy: You don’t have to do it. Let me do it

Rosie: I’m not doing it

Elisabeth: I’ve not heard that line. Listen I think that’s unfair

Rosie: You should watch some of the shows that you don’t watch

Elisabeth: I watch all of them. You accused me of watching all of them yesterday

Joy: I’m okay arguing with Elisabeth

Rosie: You’re just as sensitive when I am hurt as I am when you were. Every time you’ve been hurt, did I reach out to you?

Elisabeth: I don’t understand why you’re hurt. Why are you hurt by me? Wait a minute

Joy: Why is this is personal- there’s a war going on out there

Elisabeth: I just don’t understand why it’s my fault if people spin words that you put out there or phrases that suggest things and I gave you an opportunity two days ago to clarify the statement that got you in trouble on all those stations. I did that as your friend

Rosie: I know- I think that - that got me in trouble- as a friend you gave me the opportunity- that was very sweet of you. What I was asking is you- who actually knows me- do you believe I think our troops are terrorists?

Elisabeth: I don’t think that you

Rosie: Yes or no?

Elisabeth: I don’t think

Rosie: Yes or no

Elisabeth: Excuse me- let me speak-

***

Rosie can not ever let a point go, even when the hole is so deep you could hide a horse in it. Rosie made the ridiculous statements that were discussed over the weekend. Rosie can not take responsibility for or ownership of her statements. She asked a rhetorical question that implied her belief that the U.S. is the cause of the deaths of 655,000 innocent Iraqis but didn’t come right out and say it because she doesn’t want o be quoted as actually saying the troops are terrorists. As I have pointed out in the past- she doesn’t think all of the troops are terrorists- she only thinks the troops that agree with George Bush are terrorists. And she seems to think that Americans who support our policy in Iraq are terrorists as well.

They go on:

***

Rosie: You’re going to double speak- it’s just a yes or a no

Elisabeth: I am not a double speaker and I don’t suggest and I don’t put suggestions out there that lead people to think things and then not answer my own question- okay

Rosie: I’ve got a question to you and you didn’t answer it

Elisabeth: I don’t believe that you believe troops are terrorists – I have said that before but when you say something like 650,000 Iraqis are dead . We invaded them

Rosie: It’s true

Elisabeth: let me finish- Who are the terrorists

Rosie: you don’t like the facts

Elisabeth: I am all about facts. You know that. You tell me not to use facts because you want me to go only on emotion. Guess what- I like facts. I like them

Joy: I gave you a whole list of them

Rosie: you hide behind the one’s you like. You cherry pick them

Elisabeth: I do not hide. I don’t cherry pick

Joy: Did I or did I not give this panel a list of facts

***

Sherri tries to bring on a break early but Rosie has to tell her it’s not time yet.

It is interesting to hear Rosie talk about double speak and facts. Rosie cherry picks facts better than just bout anybody I have ever met. This dialogue is a great example of her inability to deal with facts. When confronted with facts, Rosie becomes angry and accusatory. Rosie seems more comfortable arguing emotion than fact- you get more sympathy and support when you can portray yourself as the victim.

Let the fight continue:

***

Elisabeth: I was just opening- people were criticizing you for saying that because it suggested something okay – so I said listen, take your opportunity now- you have a show right now- tell them – tell the world what you really think

Rosie: I didn’t want o take my opportunity to tell the world. I wanted to know what people like you- you are my friend- since September- do you believe that I think our troops are terrorists? And you would not even look me in the face, Elisabeth, and say no

Elisabeth: What are you talking about

Rosie (mimicking Elisabeth): “oh Rosie, I can understand how people might have thought that. Why don’t you take the opportunity” like I’m 6

Elisabeth: because you are an adult and I am certainly not going to be the person to explain your thoughts. They are your thoughts. Defend your own insinuations.

Rosie: I defend my thoughts

Elisabeth: Defend your own thoughts

Rosie: but every time I defend them Elisabeth it’s poor little Elisabeth that I am picking on

Elisabeth: You know what- poor little Elisabeth is not poor little Elisabeth

Rosie: That’s right. That’s why I’m not going to fight with you anymore because it’s absurd. So for three weeks you can say whatever Republican crap you want- I’m not going to do it

Elisabeth: Its much easier to fight someone like Donald Trump isn’t it because he’s obnoxious

Rosie: I’ve never fought him. He fought me. I told a fact about him. He didn’t like the fact

***

Her selective memory is something isn’t it? She initiated the feud with Trump by basically calling him immoral and then telling the world he declared bankruptcy. Trump would respond to her comments and then, because she always has to have the last word, she would start it up again.

Elisabeth is 100% correct in telling Rosie to defend her comments by explaining exactly what she meant by her rhetorical question. She can not- she has to blame someone else for her difficulties.

Rosie seems to want to paint herself the victim. She name calls people regularly- whether it be referring to Kelly Ripa as a homophobe or calling George Bush a criminal or Elisabeth a robot, she feels completely justified in saying anything she wants- even if her statements are totally rooted in emotion.

She can dish it out but she can not take it.

And still, there’s more:

***

Elisabeth: I gave you an opportunity to clarify

Rosie: You don’t have to give me anything. I asked you a question

Elisabeth: I asked you a question

Rosie: You wouldn’t answer it

Elisabeth: You wouldn’t answer your own question

Rosie: Oh Elisabeth- I don’t want- you know what

Elisabeth: You didn’t answer your own question

Rosie: You didn’t understand what I am saying?

Elisabeth: I understand what you’re saying. I understand what you’re saying. I think it’s sad. I think it’s sad because I don’t understand how there can be such hurt feelings when all I did was say “Look, why don’t you tell everybody what you said. I did that as a friend.

Rosie: What you did is not defend me. I asked you if you believed

Elisabeth: You didn’t even answer your own question. I don’t believe that your suggestion was right

Rosie: Every day since September I have told you I support the troops

Elisabeth: I have done the same for you

Rosie: I asked you if you believed what the Republican pundits were saying and you said nothing and that is cowardly

Elisabeth: No, no, no-

Rosie: Nothing, Elisabeth- hurtful, hurtful

Elisabeth: Do not call me a coward because number one I sit here every single day and open my heart and tell people exactly what I believe

Rosie: So do I Elisabeth

Elisabeth: Do not call me a coward, Rosie. I do not hide

Rosie: it was cowardly yesterday

Elisabeth: It was not cowardly, it was honest

Rosie: it was

Joy: Is there no commercial in this show?

Elisabeth: What is cowardly? Asking a question- I’ll tell you what’s cowardly-

Joy: What are we- PBS?

Elisabeth: Asking a rhetorical question that you never answer yourself- that is cowardly

Joy: Who is directing this show- Let’s go to commercial

Elisabeth: I need a drink of water- let’s go to commercial

Sherri: The baby

Elisabeth: The baby is fine

***

What a sad exchange this proved to be. Barbara must have been climbing the walls.,

Rosie appeared to be on the verge of a breakdown. Elisabeth was livid, as she had every right to be in this situation. The only coward on the stage was Rosie. She made a thoughtless comment, which is par for the course for her. She can not acknowledge her comment was inappropriate so she wants someone else to defend her so as to make her seem more sympathetic. Elisabeth didn’t back down at all- there may be hope for her in the long run.

Ultimately, Rosie really does need some help. Hopefully Kelly can work with Rosie to be sure she gets the help she needs before these episodes become more serious.

Tomorrow’s show will be interesting- will they talk or won’t they?

Will Barbara show up to bring everyone back together again?

Tune in tomorrow for the answers to these questions and to get a good laugh…

Returning to Joy’s rant:

***

Joy continues on her mini-rant: He withdraws from the Kyoto treaty, John Ashcroft, sat in a classroom after 9/11
Elisabeth: So he was supposed to freak out the kids
Joy: and read “my Pet Goat” for 7 minutes after we were attacked on 9/11
Elisabeth: Right, he should have definitely panicked the children
Joy: He lied to get us into a war, he awarded a no bid contract to Halliburton, Abu Ghraib, he promoted his friend Michael Brown to take care of Katrina- “Heck of a job Brownie” remember that, he doesn’t listen to the Iraq study group, he choked on a pretzel, he waited a week to visit New Orleans and then only to watch some jazz, he stood by Alberto Gonzales, who needs to be thrown out – we all know that and he stood by Rumsfeld, who some people think is a war criminal, he can’t pronounce the word nuclear. These are just some of the reasons that this guy needs to thrown out of office.

***

First- does Joy know anything about the Kyoto treaty? Does she have any idea why Bush protected America from the financial detriments and total idiocy of the Protocol? First, developing countries are excluded from the protocol. One could argue that developing countries should be required to meet the requirements as they are “developing” their infrastructures now. Those countries don’t have to convert entire industries to new standards. Consider building codes and how typically new construction is impacted, not buildings already in existence. Compliance with Kyoto would have disastrous effects on industry in the U.S.

Joy and her liberal cohorts would be the first to blame Bush for the economic disaster that would have followed the application of the protocol in the United States.

Additionally, while America is claimed to be the largest polluter in the world, there are many reasons for this and it doesn’t make America evil. The costs of adopting Kyoto Protocols would drastically raise the cost of gasoline and be extremely detrimental to the U.S. economy- an effect sought after by those countries who would benefit from the harm caused to the U.S. economy. It is easier for European countries to adopt fuel standards because most European nations have a transportation infrastructure readily available to their citizens. This sort of system is not possible in the U.S. Automobile use is a fact of life in the U.S. and there is no easy way to convert to a mass transit system in order to dramatically reduce the use of cars. Americans are simply not going to sacrifice the quality of life and the economic opportunity tied to the ability to travel easily around the United States.

Additionally- the Protocols allowed the European Union countries to share or swap credits as needed to meet protocols.

Also, countries like France use nuclear power to generate much of their electricity, thus helping them meet the standards. Where does Joy want to build the nuclear power plants to help the U.S. reduce emissions?

Enough about Bush rescuing us from Kyoto…

On to Bush reading to school children. What should Bush have done when told of the news of the planes crashing into the towers? Should he have held a press conference right in front of those kids? At the time people praised his ability to remain calm while waiting for information. There was nothing he could do. Or he could have joined John Kerry and his democratic cronies who were unable to think (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040814-123306-8563r.htm) in the minutes after the attack.

Then we have the Halliburton fire the libs continually try to build. I wonder if Joy can name a single American company, besides Halliburton, that would have been able to respond to the needs in the Middle East in a time frame that was reasonable. If Bush had put out Request for Proposals to deal with issues like rebuilding the oil infrastructure in Iraq- the process could have taken months and the result would have been the same. Or maybe the U.S. government should have awarded the contract to some Middle Eastern company with possible ties to terrorist organizations. Joy- If Halliburton shouldn’t have gotten the contract, to whom would you have awarded the contract?

Abu Ghraib: Yeah- I am sure Bush personally called those morons working the night shift and told them to put underwear on the heads of the terror suspects. He probably was watching the prisoners standing naked on chairs via closed circuit television. Joy, Rosie and Rory Kennedy can try as hard as they want to link the antics of some night watchmen to the administration but it’s ridiculous.

Could we stop with the Katrina whining? Why is it the job of the federal government to bail out a bunch of people who failed to protect themselves with insurance? Oh, they couldn’t get insurance? Maybe that should have been their first clue not to buy property in a flood zone. Then the jokers didn’t leave when the whole world watched a hurricane bigger than Texas heading toward them. They had days to leave and they sat there and did nothing. Then a bunch of fools holed up in a stadium, thinking no electricity or running water for days wouldn’t be a problem. “Brownie” might not have done a decent job but the real issue is the federal government shouldn’t have been there anyways. And as for the touring of New Orleans or any other natural disaster- why do people think the President should waste his time doing fly-overs or shaking hands with people who were impacted by the hurricane. There are people all over the country who have lost their homes because of flooding, tornadoes, fires… People should have insurance. Local communities should help their needy. State governments should also step up. And private individuals should give what they can to help through non-profits. The federal government can not save every person from every tragedy.

By the way, if Al Gore is correct about global warming and the ice caps are going to melt and the sea-level is going to rise- why are we rebuilding New Orleans. I say cut our losses now.

I have got to move on- this is just ridiculous…

They go on:

***

Sherri: Yes, but he didn’t sleep with an intern
Joy: Maybe he should. I’m just saying there is something wrong with this country when we are continuing to support this administration. I am furious today over all of this
Elisabeth: I know you are
Joy: Al Gore makes me mad because he doesn’t run. Now he says yesterday in the interview with Larry King he’s not running because he thinks global warming is more important. Now the president of the United States has more power than anybody in the world and he needs to run for office if he wants to fix global warming and get us out of this mess that we are in. Everyone in the world hates us.
Sherri: Do you really think Gore, Al Gore could get us, Al Gore?
Joy: Who else could? Who else could?
Elisabeth: I knew I liked you Sherri
Sherri: No, I’m just saying Al Gore. I mean I know what he is talking about with the Green Peace and everything but you really think Al Gore is the one to get us out of this mess?
Joy: Why not? Why not him?
Elisabeth: What’s his plan to keep us safe other than in terms of the environment?
Joy: He has a plan. Read the book. He has a lot of plans in that book

***

As I have said before- Al Gore running with Obama as the VP could lock up the Presidential race. Dems love both of them. People think he was robbed in 2000… Gore has reinvented himself. He will probably win the noble Peace prize. Gore / Obama- it could happen.

They go on and on until finally the fireworks begin. The exchange requires its own blog posting.

 

May 23, 2007

It was a total SLUGFEST today. Barbara had to have been going insane- she'll probably be back tomorrow to smooth things over if that’s possible.

Before I get into that, Lets deal with Joy’s lunacy:

Joy is given the floor to talk about Al Gore and his book that puts out his position that George Bush is the worst President in history. Carter said the same thing. So Joy thinks that if a former Democratic President and a former Democratic Vice-President both say that a Republican President is the worst in history, we should take their positions as gospel.

Joy has created a list of things that Bush has done that she finds problematic.

***

Joy: I don’t really understand why he’s still there. Does anyone have any idea why we can’t get rid of this guy who stole the election in 2000

***

Joy- it’s called a Representative Republic. We have an electoral college that votes to elect our president. In a nut shell, each state has a given number of electors, based on population. The states determine how they will allot their electoral votes. Bush didn’t steal the election in 2000. Gore tried to steal it and he failed when he attempted to litigate the results in Florida through cherry-picking counties in which to have a recount. His attorneys failed to make a valid argument about why they should only recount areas that would most likely favor Gore. The Florida Supreme Court then began playing games with the Florida rules. The U.S. Supreme Court stepped in because the United States was the laughing stock of the world as Gore’s lawyers tried again and again to manipulate the process.

If the American people felt Bush was an election thief, they should have voted Bush out in 2004. Guess what Joy? To the shock and dismay of liberals, Bush won again. You can whine about the popular vote in 2000 all you want but that is irrelevant to the discussion.

Change the Constitution if you can. Otherwise, if liberals want to have a greater impact on the Electoral College they need to move out of population centers like New York and California to places like Utah and Iowa.

The conversation continues:

***

Elisabeth: According to Gore he stole it

Joy continues with her list: killed the surplus with tax cuts, wait a minute, wanted to privatize social security, wait a minute let me get through the list

Elisabeth: It’s very long so we might be here for awhile

Joy: We might be here- I let you talk yesterday- now I’m talking and I love her but let me do this.

***

Quick responses: The tax cuts have saved our economy by pulling us out of the recession Bush inherited from the Clinton years. Because of the Bus The surplus was impacted by the unbelievable costs of September 11^th, in one of the largest bailout sin the history of the world. The costs to compensate victims (which is not a government responsibility- the people who died should all have had life insurance and the businesses should have all carried insurance - and the insurance companies should have been forced to pay) Also, there have been several natural disasters that have impacted large population centers. (Government bailouts at the Federal level have again eaten into the federal budget.) And lets not forget about the war we are fighting against- dare I use the word- terrorists.

In terms of Social Security: Joy, the system is going belly up because your generation FAILED to hold your politicians accountable for fixing the program over the last 40 years. Baby boomers have failed this country on this issue and continue to selfishly stand in the way of reform. No one my age- 39- thinks they will get SS benefits. The money will be gone. The only hope is to start to privatize the program to allow individuals to put the money in accounts tied directly to the contributor. If the contributor dies, that money would then be passed along to the survivors.

I have to go pick up my kids- more later.

 I'll blog about the first segmrnt later on today.

The talk turns to the dastardly Fox News, which gave a good review to Michael Moore’s new movie about the American health care system but just can’t get a break in regards to it’s coverage of Rosie.

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Elisabeth: See I told you Fox was fair and balanced
Rosie: Did you watch what they said about me? Did you watch them this weekend?
Elisabeth: I was away for the weekend
Rosie: They said “Rosie O’Donnell thinks our troops are terrorists.”
Elisabeth: Hmm
Rosie: What do you think about that?
Joy: They said something like that on MSNBC too
Rosie: Did you watch it?
Elisabeth: No I didn’t watch this weekend- No I wasn’t here this weekend because I was in Boston with my brother
Rosie: But you were here when we talked about it. So do you think that that’s what I was saying in that conversation?
Elisabeth: Were they referring to- I’m trying to go back to the conversation
Rosie: Here’s what they said: “Rosie O’Donnell thinks our troops are terrorists”
Elisabeth: Is that because you asked the question “Who are the terrorists if 655,000 Iraqis are dead after we came in there and invaded a sovereign nation? I’m just trying to
Rosie: Yeah, that was the conversation
Elisabeth: maybe that they drew the link there- I don’t know
Rosie: They drew the link or they misrepresented what I said in order to twist it to make it seem what they want

***

People should go back and listen to what she said. She absolutely implied the American presence in Iraq represents terrorism to the Iraqi people. Rosie refuses to acknowledge that the terrorism in Iraq is instigated at the hands of the fundamentalist Muslims who want the US to leave so they can regain control of the country. American forces are not torturing and killing Iraqi civilians at the direction of George Bush. In fact, our troops are dying and getting injured because they are trying to clear the roads to protect the Iraqi civilians. Our troops are trying to safeguard the Iraqi government, which was elected by those innocent civilians. Our troops are trying to train the Iraqi police and military to defend Iraq from the insurgents who are acting on behalf of neighboring countries who fear freedom will take root in Iraq and thrive. (Rosie- Have you heard of Iran? Or Syria?)

They go on:

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Elisabeth: So, so I would clarify it to them now because you have the opportunity cause I did read that a lot of people were thinking that you said that
Rosie: So you want me to say it again?
Elisabeth: Answer your own question
Rosie: I just think that it’s interesting that the network you support takes such joy in twisting my words and distorting them. I do no think our American troops are terrorists. I want our American troops home, able-bodied. I don’t want them to invade countries that have done nothing to us. I don’t want them to die at the hands of a republican administration that doesn’t care enough about them to give them healthcare (her finger up, shushing Elisabeth) when they return. I love our troops and will work for our troops and no matter what you say (several words were silenced) that’s the truth Change it around as you want
Elisabeth: Rosie, when you say, when you asked the question when you pose that question – what is the answer to that question then? Who are the terrorists?

***

Apparently, Rosie can not answer her own question because if she did, she would have to say what she thinks- which is
that this Republican administration is a terrorist group and that troops who are republican are terrorists and then by de facto reasoning, republicans in general who support the administration are terrorists. Rosie absolutely is clear in what she says- she just wants to say it in a convoluted way so that she can’t be quoted directly.

Many of the troops believe in what they are doing. They are not dying at the hands of a republican administration.

Her reference to the problems at the Veterans Administration hospitals point out a decades long problem that continues to worsen. She is right that the troops deserve better. The problem is that the government can not effectively run any program well. The issues at the VA should cause Americans to seriously think about what a government run healthcare program could be like. And they should vote against any candidate who wants to federalize healthcare.

Barbara wants to salvage the discussion. She should have left well-enough alone:

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Barbara: Can I just say something because I listened the other day and I think that sometimes you are confusing the word terrorist, because you said “who are terrorists?” implying that the terrorists could be us, terrorists could be someone. What you really mean, I think, is “jihadists.” We are talking about a particular group of people
Rosie: I am talking about a word “Terrorism” that the administration has used to terrify this country
Elisabeth: No
Rosie: They are terrorizing Americans by using the word terror and taking away our civil liberties
Elisabeth: All countries, all nations, use the word terrorist to describe those who in the name of Allah will blow someone else up will blow children up
BW: Those are jihadists

***

Rosie was not confusing anything, and Barbara should not try to put words into her mouth because she will only dig the hole deeper.

Rosie now defensively tries to explain that the administration has totally over reacted to the threat of terrorism and that the administration is trying to manipulate the American populous by over stating the threat of fundamentalist Muslim extremists.

Please be clear that Rosie will be the first person in line to criticize those fear-mongering Republicans if they fail to stop a terrorist attack. Rosie wants it both ways. She wants to be blissfully ignorant of the problems but totally protected from any consequences of the policies she would like to push on the American electorate.

Does this remind anyone of the time when she helped organize the several thousand moms to march on Washington DC to protest gun ownership but had a bodyguard who carried a gun to protect her and her family? She didn’t need a gun, personally. She had enough money to hire a bodyguard to carry her weapon. Bodyguards having guns is very different from individuals having a gun.

Rosie is unable to defend her logic. She is unable to answer the question she poses because she will have to reveal her true feelings, which run counter to the beliefs of the vast majority of the American people. While there are many who don’t support the war in Iraq, very few people would ever say that our troops, or the Republican administration, are comparable to terrorists.

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Elisabeth: Those are jihadists, they are extremists. Islamists who are trying to use their religion to justify killing hundreds of thousands –but when you ask
Rosie: All I am saying is do you not think that we have killed hundreds of thousands?

***

Again, Rosie can not accept that the terrorists are killing the innocent Iraqi civilians. If only Elisabeth could articulate this point. She tries to cull Rosie’s lack of reason for some kernel of logic:

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Elisabeth: In the name of what?
Rosie: Invading Iraq
Elisabeth: So are you then calling us terrorists?
Rosie: No, I just said it Elisabeth. Are you not able to hold two concepts at once? Do you think we are only

***

This is a new low for Rosie. She is calling Elisabeth stupid. Rosie refuses to answer Elisabeth’s question and then belittles Elisabeth for being tenacious about wanting an answer. Elisabeth actually shows some serious backbone:

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Elisabeth: I can hold more than two actually. I can hold more than two if you would like me to. I would like you to hold the idea that there are people out there named terrorists
Rosie: There are pregnant women in Iraq just like you and I will speak for them and you
Elisabeth: They are not terrorists. They are nice women
Rosie: So we shouldn’t be over there killing them
Elisabeth: So are we terrorists for being there?
BW: That’s a different story than saying Americans are terrorists
Rosie: But I didn’t say it. You know who said it- those crappy cable shows said it. The ones Elisabeth watches. Those shows
Elisabeth: I watch all cable news, number one. I watch all of them because that’s part of my job and as an American citizen I try to broaden as many concepts as possible by watching all of those news programs. Okay. I do obviously like certain shows – I’ll throw them out if you want me to- Like Hannity and Colmes- they are one of my favorites because they hold debates, they hold debates on that show and that is like what we do here only you know we have four women and I think it is special here but to say that someone can’t hold two thoughts at the same time just because I believe in terrorism when there are democrats out there running for office who don’t want to believe in terrorism and they want to treat it like the boogeyman. How are they going to protect us (from) something that they don’t believe in

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Thank goodness for those crappy cable shows (i.e. all the shows on the Fox News Channel) that hold people like O’Donnell accountable. Rosie wants a total pass on her behavior and can’t accept responsibility for either her behavior or her language. Rosie does think that many Americans act like terrorists and her comments have clearly been in support of that position.

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Rosie: You’re treating it like the boogeyman. I think they have used it to polarize people
E: Have you seen them? Have you seen footage?
BW: There are people, there are jihadists whose life work, and will die for it, is primarily to attack the west.
Rosie: So when Ron Paul says “Why is that?” Do we have any role in that Barbara? Why is that? He’s asking the question
BW: We cannot go back to the mistakes we made at the beginning of the war. We have to learn from that. But that does not mean that there is a whole body of jihadists, not necessarily Muslim, you cannot say that, of jihadists whose life and death is wiping out the west
Rosie: But they’re not innocent civilians in Iraq. There are innocent civilians in Iraq
Elisabeth: of course there are
BW: But they’ve killed innocent civilians in other places. Look what is happening in Iraq- I think everybody believes is horrific and we don’t know how to get out of it but that does not mean that there are not jihadists, terrorists, who are out to harm us and we must be aware of it.
Joy: But when people say that people like Jimmy Carter are irrelevant or Ron Paul are irrelevant, that’s wrong too. We must look at Mideast policy over the last 25 years and that’s what we are talking about too. Name-calling is irrelevant at this point. That’s what’s irrelevant.
Rosie: And I love the troops America. Like it or not I want them home safe

***

Rosie is on a rant that does nothing but demonstrate her inability to be rational in her arguments on the View. She should stop quoting Ron Paul- the guy is a bit of a nut- and begin having a dialogue with actual troops in Iraq. They may kno